[BlueDude13]

I'm not sure if you all in the States have seen this but the government put out a report about the impacts of climate change on just the U.S.

globalchange.gov

You can download the 196 page report as a PDF for free. It's really scary.

[Ron Fontaine]

Climate change is a controversial subject, and I hope replies to this thread are kept civil.

In my area, the mountains of northern NH, I have witnessed species moving north in increasing numbers since the early 1980's. These include species of birds, plants, and insects that did not formerly live here. My feeling is they are moving north with the warmer climate.

Some, like ticks - which even very old people had never seen before - became especially troublesome "north of the notches" whereas earlier they did not reside here in any numbers but did live just outside the these major mountains to the south.

There is some fear that maple syrup production is going to drop significantly.

Spring seems to be coming earlier and winter later, in general.

Whatever is happening, there has been a fundamental change in the local climate for the last thirty years or so that many who live and work in the outdoors can sense.

[BlueDude13]

Parts of the report talk about the temperature change trends in different regions since the 1970's.

If the report is even close to right, it's still frightening. Any children or grandchildren I may have in the future may not have the same environment to enjoy that we do, maybe not even a shadow of it.

[TheAvatar]

We always hear reports of global warming or whatever they are calling it today, and I'm not knocking them, but I would be curious to know if there are any areas that are seeing LOWER temperatures than they have in the past.

I know that the human footprint on the earth has had it's effect on changing climate conditions, and I know that many nations have tried to limit/stop/reverse these effects. Mother nature also has ways of "repairing" herself. Climate shifts/changes are a big part of that I believe.

Also, I do have to question just how accurate the results are that we hear about. Not saying it's some kind of coverup or anything, but let's face it, we have seen manipulation of information to generate support/funds for certain causes. We STILL don't have eco-friendly transportation, even tho the technology DOES exist. I have read of people coming up with GREAT ideas/methods or reducing our dependency on oil, and then certain companies/agencies/what-have-you buying up the rights to that technology, and burying it.

I just believe that there may be another side to the issue that we are not hearing about.

I really wish we could see some research done to answer some of these questions. I for one would be interested in seeing the results.

[BlueDude13]

I get what your saying boss, just figured I'd share something I found while at work.

More information is always a plus.

[crazydave]

you only have to go into a city to experience mans impact - concrete absorbs heat then gives it back up at night so the only resort is aircon which again heats the area up. then you get areas like las vegas where on top of all that they try to terraform then complain that its now an offense to water your lawn. if annoys me when folks retire to the sun then do their damndest to ruin it. we have a million brits in spain and every one wants a pool and aircon.

nowhere is getting cooler and its just clutching at straws, you'll be able to sail around greenland soon which hasn't been known since the early 1400's when the chinses mapped it out and it was warmer globally but the seas were 12-20 foot lower going by the archeology which means there must have been a lot of water locked up still in the caps and glaciers. alot of the deserts were heavily man influenced but surprisingly the sahara is greening out in some areas unknown for hundreds of years.

if we have any sense then most of us will not see 2050 which is when they reckon there will be no turning back but will opt for euthanasia to save resources. mind you hopefully it will be compulsary by then.


there is a strange ocunter to the global warming arguament though if you dirty up airline fuel again and add a few other chemicals the airplanes themselves can distribute high air pollution which will reflect sunlight away and help counter the warming leaving us the pollution issues. there could also be a possibility that mass solar panels could also reflect enough back like a simulated ice age.

which is another strange point shown in daisy world no one knows how ice ages cycle back again into a warming period. at least we knew where we were with a nuclear winter.

[TheAvatar]

It's an interesting site to be sure! Another thing just occurred to me:

I wonder if it's even possible to measure, but common sense would tell you that population growth also has a very real and, I would be willing to bet, big impact on regional as well as global climate changes.

Ask anyone on the street if they think war, famine, pestilence, plague, or death in general is a good or bad thing, and I'm sure the vast majority would say it is a bad thing.

I would have to regretfully disagree.

I'm sure some of you might automatically think I'm insane for saying something like that, but before I get bombarded, I'd like to explain my thinking behind that statement. Also, I am not saying that my opinion is totally correct, but these are just some ideas that came to me, and I welcome a healthy discussion about it. My ideas are not written in stone, and them may change given different information, ideas, etc.

Here is my thinking: Population growth is a BIG problem. Now, I haven't looked for any figures for other countries YET, but here is just what a quick search got me.

As anyone that lives in Rural areas can tell you I'm sure, The relative temperature is going to be lower than that taken even a few miles away in an Urban setting. Our cities, those giant concrete/asphalt "oases" generate and retain a LOT of heat. Ask even an amateur astronomer, and I would be willing to tell you that given a choice of location for telescopic observation, they would prefer one in "the country" as opposed to a city. All the heat being radiated in cities after sunset can be visibly notes. In the country you are going to have a lot clearer view of the stars because for one thing, you don't have all the heat making "waves."

Population growth increases the need for more housing and urbanization. Most people don't want to live in the country, they want to be close to town because of the convenience. The edges of cities keep growing, smaller towns get absorbed by the larger growing cities once miles away. All this is going to take its toll on the regional climate.

I'm not saying let's go start wars and kill people, but disease, war, etc. are a natural solution to the growing population problems.

I would never wish illness/death upon anyone!

But, maybe with all our advancements in medicine/science, we have brought this problem upon ourselves. Life expectancy has increased a lot. The medicines we have now have helped increase that.

Now they say germs/viruses/diseases/bacteria are becoming "immune" to certain treatments. "Smart bugs." So we, try to develop new ways to fight them off. It's an endless cycle.

Maybe, just maybe, nature is trying to tell us something? Maybe this "natural" population control is needed to stabilize the environment. The way population is growing worldwide, how are we going to manage to feed/shelter these people? Sooner or later, we're going to run out of land for farming because of Urban encroachment.

Where are we going to get food?

We pump our cattle and other farm animals full of hormones to make them grow bigger, faster to keep up with the demand from the public and this is certainly not going to stop.

Don't get me wrong, I love that we can all live richer fuller lives! But I really do think that all the death is needed. It is needed to maintain balance in the cycle of life.

We can't let human population go unchecked. It would be unsustainable. (Hehe, I got to use a BIG word! )

Nature will find a way to keep things in check, I really believe that. Nature has a lot it can throw at us, but we can't fight nature.

It's a war in which human beings will NEVER get out of alive. Even is everyone "does their part" and tries to reduce our global footprint, it's only going to go so far if population keeps growing like it has. Nature's gonna win...one way or another, and after we're gone, it will wipe the slate clean for a clean start.

Not trying to start a war or anything here Just something I thought about is all...who knows, maybe it's the ranting of a MADMAN!

Here are a couple of charts I found showing population change.

[garret]

the problem with most data on climate shift is that we dont look back far enough, looking back 30-50 years will in no way give an accurate example of true climate shift, we would need to study the climate over thousands of years to give an accurate report

for all we know the shift we are seing could be quite normal and part of the overall geological weather paterns of the earth.

or it could be increased volcanic activity pushing a hot spike for a few years

it could even be the precurser to a mini iceage - all known data on iceages shows that the planet warms before the onset of an iceage, pushing huge amounts of fresh water into the oceans and slowing down or stopping the oceanic flows that carry warmth to the nothern latitudes, and dont forget in an iceage the equator will get hotter and dryer as the mosture is trapped further north

[TheAvatar]

very true garret! I would love to know more, but who knows how much information you'd have to sift through to get an answer

[crazydave]

the issue is getting past the spin. its a definate that to some extent we need a lot of death so we should stop tryin to find cures for everything. in the 1930's the north sea was fishes out and dying, ww2 caused it to replenish which lasted up to the 70's till the soviet factory ships started plying thier trade. we need to hive off areas as nursery areas to help replenish the seas and the same goes to the land. we need to stop all the the suburbs and start living like ants. every time we build a house we have a habit of picking the best growing land.

one feature that does annoy me is electricity, we churn out megawatts but most houses are packed full of 5-12v electrical goods. a mass produced solar power pack using lead acid technology could satisfy most of our domestic needs needs without having to build more power plants and it would also cut down on the heat given off by 10 billion power adapters.

one interesting thing whihc crops up is the sci fi approach of the explosion of mankind out into the universe. building and launching such a vast fleet would surely sound the death nell to the planet though.