[ColcordMama]

Originally Posted by LaRemnant

With the tires, or bins, how would you access the potatoes/tomatoes form the lower sections without disturbing the upper layers, and without having the soil fall out? Also, are there any other vegetables/fruits that grow better using this method, besides potatoes and tomatoes?

Thank you everybody for providing SO MUCH experience and wisdom. Sincerely, I am greatly humbled, and blessed.

Noble.

I too want to know how to harvest potatoes from the bottom sections without disturbing the upper layers. The way I heard it, you let the whole thing grow and then at the end of the season, harvest it by kicking over the tire tower. And Larmey, I have ONLY heard this method used for potatoes, not tomatoes. The only possible benefit of doing this with tomatoes would be so the tomato plants could have really long roots. I mean really long roots, for crying out loud. LOL For tomatoes better stick with growing them in the ground or in pots on your back patio. Or you can grow the little bitty tomatoes hanging from pots suspended from your patio roof, with tube watering on a timer. That's a really good way to grow a healthy snack without taking up any garden space. Don't fall for the "grow tomatoes upside down" thing, though. I've never heard of anybody who was able to make that work. Stick with the basics while you're still a noob. There'll be plenty of time for you to play around with the other stuff after you have some experience.

P.S. When you get ready to plant your tomato seedlings, you're going to be told to strip off the bottom couple of sets of leaves and lay the little plants in a trench, with just the top 2 or 3 inches above ground and most of the stem covered with dirt. Go ahead and do it, trust me, it's important. I know it sounds peculiar and you might not understand why, but it really helps to make for a sturdy, healthy plant, not one that's all spindly and weak.

[Solar Geek]

Just a couple of things to add.
**BAGS --If you have seeds left over but no space I saw in Mother Earth News an article that said buy one of those bags of potting soil or dirt for $1 at Home Depot and lay it anywhere (it will kill everything underneath it, even buckthorn as I tried this). Poke 10 small holes in one side and lay that side down so water can pass through. Then cut a slit in any shape on the top side. I did "X"s across where I was putting in my seeds. Put your seeds in and you will not believe the yield! It killed all my left over weeds, I got a bumper crop (since it was a little raised and the plastic kept in moisture even when every other part of the garden was drying out - the holes just let out the excess).
The plants overgrew the bags so no one even knew they were there. At the end of the season I had already "amended" soil without my doing anything. I simply cut open the bag, pulled out the plants for the compost pile and dumped the great soil over the now dead weeds. I may even try this on my deck since now we are in the city.
** Tomatoes --Someone else mentioned tomatoes but my POV is there are never enough tomatoes! I dry most of them almost all the way in my dehydrator (NOT to crispy, to chewy) and either freeze those for later or grind the them up and mix them in olive oil in the fridge with parmesan and then add basil when I use them. Great on pasta, perfect start to salad dressing - just add vinegar!

*** PUT MARIGOLDS everywhere, they keep bad stuff away. Basil like others said. I also ring my gardens with garlic (planted now) and intersperse onions/chives everywhere. These naturally keep certain critters away.

***Use BOUNCE sheets on sticks to keep away deer (lived on 3 acres of woo
ds and only once had a deer come near the BOUNCE protected food). But you need to replace it at least once a summer. You need only use sheet on each corner of a 4 x 4 plot but I also would put a string up around the Bounce sticks and maybe put one more on with a clothespin when I noticed alot of bunnies or deer. NOTHING likes Bounce.

Enjoy your garden. I never was very successful with composting as winter set in too quickly (we didn't have grass so I had to wait until the garden died off to get enough to put into the pile.) So I started putting coffee grounds, onion and garlic skins directly into the garden, even when it was growing. The veggies loved it.
I miss mine everyday since we moved to the city for his job. I brought my chives, rosemary (annual up north here), and one of my hydrangeas.
Good luck. SG

[NorthWet]

Originally Posted by LaRemnant

What do you mean by "thin"?

Thinning is the sometimes emotionally difficult decision to pull perfectly good plants. 100% germination rate doesn't happen all the time. If you need 20 plants in a given area, plant extras (maybe 25 or 30). Pull, or thin, however many over your goal appear. It does, in some ways waste seed, but it also helps insure a full garden. I generally skip this with things like green onions or anything else I plant every couple of weeks.

Before I forget to mention it (again), next year I plan on planting one or two of each type of seed into a small pot which I will semi-plant in the garden row near my row marker. I found it difficult to ID the young seedlings as they broke thru the ground and often didn't know if I should pull the weed or watch the veggie. This way I can go look and see what the leaf pattern will be. [whistling innocently] I *might* try and claim it's so my son won't mess up ... but I need it as much as he does.

Originally Posted by LaRemnant

That Diatomaceous Earth sounds pretty interesting! Do you just eyeball it, or do you actually have a ratio measurement between the three? What is an emergency stop gap measure?

The soap actually does more than the cayenne or DE. The soap will kill many problem pests while leaving bees n such alone. (Yeah!) The cayenne is more to encourage the bugs to go find another garden to dine upon. The DE I only used after pollinating was wrapped up and when a bug problem was being stubborn. It did help.

I know I started with a formula but by the end of the summer I squirted some dish soap in, shook a bit of the other two in and called it good. Hmmm ... a good solid squeeze of soap into a 2 gallon container of water and some shakes of the others ... Not spotting the original formula at the moment ... sorry ... will try again come the morrow with fresh eyes if you'd like.

Here's more in depth info on the use of soap:
UF IFAS Extension Service

An "emergency stop gap measure" is that which you turn to when you are totally panicked and completely convinced the plants will be dead by morning and HAVE to do something right now! LOL (in my case, I killed off two spray bottles, on a Sunday, with replacements 45+ minutes away - I tried painting it on a few of them and had to pull them within the week. )

Originally Posted by LaRemnant

Does Lamb's Quarter have the same nutritional value as spinach?

Like many wild edibles, it is very nutritious. My google-foo is weak tonight and I can't seem to find any figures for it raw, but even cooked gives an inkling:
Without Salt Drained Boiled Nutrition Facts

Here are some recipes for them, though my favorite way is raw in a salad.
Mariquita Farm's Newsletter

Originally Posted by LaRemnant

Sweet Basil helps keep bugs away? Do you know why? The Diatomaceous Earth doesn't really affect the praying mantis? They have an exoskeleton, so I don't see how the Diatomaceous Earth wouldn't eliminate them. (?)

I assume (but haven't looked into it) that the basil is a smell issue. (just as bay leaves and mint can keep ants off a counter) AFAIK, they are only helpful for squash bugs.

I had two garden spots this year, about 30 feet apart. One had very few bug problems (and plenty of praying mantis). The other had constant bug issues (didn't get to harvest any broccoli, cauliflower, or brussels sprouts - saved some of the plants ... so was working on the learning curve but lost too many of the early battles. ) Never did spot a mantis in the infested garden. I only used DE in the problem child garden. I need to learn more about mantis to understand why they avoided the second garden. (I'm guessing too windy or too sunny but don't really know) But I don't think of mantis as a crawling insect ... so I'm not sure they would be done in by DE but you might well have a point ... (duly added to my look-it-up list ;-)

DE can also be a problem (in quantity) for worms. I have mostly sand and few worms so I can do things someone else might prefer to avoid ... but I doubt the quantities used in the bug spray would become a problem for worms. But might be worth checking out ...

I've just recently learned there is salt water and fresh water DE, as well as food grade. All uses aren't interchangeable but I haven't had the chance to dig in yet. (we have a mine near here so I get to pick up tid-bits now and again) Anyway, just what you need, something more to learn about! [evil grin]

Originally Posted by LaRemnant

So a progressive garden is one in which different edibles (that grow in alternatingly successive time frames) are planted like clockwork to produce a cycle of sorts? Interesting... I think I heard that before (remember! I am a NEWWWWB )

Dunno if that is an 'official' term or not. It's just how I am thinking of my garden in trying to get away from the standard one-space-one-use mind set. Remember, I'm only one season of learning curves ahead of you! LOTS of challenges this year and I am sooo thankful I am able to walk thru them when I don't HAVE to rely on the garden. Each challenge seems to have many interrelated lessons to learn.

Originally Posted by LaRemnant

GREAT! Another book for me to study!!! What do you mean by letting some vegetables to "go to seed"? Do they have to rot? Why the crap would it take TWO YEARS?

Some, like cucumbers or zucchini, need to be left until fully ripe, which is past eating stage. For instance, root crops don't contain the seed inside the veggie so they must send up flowers etc. to make seed ... thus the phrase 'gone to seed'. Others are just obstinate enough to require special planning to allow them to stay in place for two years. Once you see the size of carrot seeds you'll really be wondering why it took so long! LOL I wonder if it would take less time in your neck of the woods - maybe only two growing seasons??

Another favorite book would be Square Foot Gardening by Mel Bartholomew - if you are interested in raised beds, this is a GREAT book to begin with (or constantly refer to ;-)

Welcome To My Garden! | Square Foot Gardening

Originally Posted by LaRemnant

Can I pick up Zeolite from the nearest garden shop? Where do you get yours? So basically you just need to throw it out once, and that's all she wrote? It will be good to go for years and years? Do you use a particular ratio ammount? As for the charcoal, do you pulverize whatever wood you burn? ColcordMama says you can use ash depending on the soil gradient... is using charcoal similar?

The zeolite should be available from a garden center. I have other plans for mine so will have it trucked in this spring by the ton directly from a mine (likely the one in Oregon but there are some closer to me). A little overkill for a garden. As to how much ... that will depend much on your soil. I have mostly sand and can't keep water longer than a sneeze. So, I'll use a good bit. Work it in and it's there forever. Hard to beat that, esp. since it shouldn't be expensive. (If it is, check out the prices on some horse stall drying products. Bound to find a few that are pure zeolite and possibly cheaper. Just as you can find big bags of large granular DE at the auto parts store cleverly disguised as oil dry) Zeolite is, apparently, also good for helping to loosen clay soils etc.

A bit more on zeolite including an idea of amounts (it is about the only too-good-to-be-true sounding product that has been as good as they say. The more I research the different uses, the more impressed I have become)
Natural Organic Home Garden Health Howard Garrett Dirt Doctor - Zeolite

The charcoal does different things for the soil than ash. It is often described as providing a life raft for the micro-life in the soil (so it doesn't all leech away). The basic concept behind making it is much like creating char-cloth. Dig a trench, start the fire, then bury it. Dig up your charcoal later. The gases it gives off (which make rocket stoves so interesting) are given off underground and benefit the soil. I doubt I'd use any really large pieces but it doesn't have to be ground either. If I am understanding the concepts correctly, it would actually be a bit better for them to have some size to them. Most references suggest it will be there forever. I'm not yet convinced, seems like it would break down over time ... but, regardless, it is expected to be a long-term additive. We're hoping to play with a farm field come spring just to see what it does to the yields.

The important tid-bit that I haven't researched yet regarding these two additives is how they affect the pH of the soil ... Soooo much to learn and never enough time. [sigh] Glad winter is here so I can catch up on some of my need to learn list.

[NorthWet]

Originally Posted by LaRemnant

I can DEFINITELY see the method to the madness with using old tires, barrels, etc. for particular edibles, like potatoes and tomatoes! I will definitely look into that to add to my "repertoire".

Just to be clear, using them for potatoes is very different than using them for tomatoes. Potatoes is a add a tire and soil as the plant grows thang to increase production and make harvest loads easier. For tomatoes - it's simply a great way to get them up high enough you can see the whole plant and to use the heat gathered by the tires to keep the roots warm to extend the growing season. Super easy to set up a cage in the tire as well. My lemon basil hated the tires (but loved the other garden). The only peppers I was able to harvest were in tires - none of the rest produced at all. The tomatoes THRIVED there. There was simply no comparison between the Romas in the tires and the ones in the garden. The tires produced about two weeks earlier (and I got a late start), produced more, and appeared to be ready to produce even more later but an early freeze ended it all. Next year I plan on getting some thyme going around the edges of the tires so it can creep and spread, keeping out the weeds and increasing my 'usable' garden space by a bit.

DH swears by using kiddie wading pools for squash and similar space eaters. I haven't tried it yet ... I'm leaning more toward using a trellis and old nylons to tie the goodies up (at least for the spaghetti squash) but haven't decided yet.

Originally Posted by LaRemnant

Yes, gleaning sounds wise. Thanks for including that. I am sure it would've taken me a little while to realize that gem, regardless of how obvious the nature of it is. That is probably what was going on with the ancient harvest festivals, among bartering and a host of other down to earth, good natured comradery and fellowship. I can TOTALLY see how being a steward of Earth with gardening could easily be a therapeutic addiction. Some would probably even dare say it has a quality of being more spiritual, with tuning into life more fully.

Sadly, I have spent obnoxious numbers of hours foraging for wild edibles. While I don't regret what I've learned or some favorites I've picked up, the time spent foraging vs. yield is oft times depressing. (e.g. grabbed three gallons of evening primrose seed pods. Will be surprised if I end up with much more than a pint of seeds - and it's taking a LOT of fiddling to get the seeds out. [sigh]) In about one hour I can fill a pickup truck with apples, or head to the local AG college and they'll dig up a row of potatoes or onions (for free) for me to harvest. Picked about 50 gallons of cherries in one afternoon with only one helper. I am amazed it took me decades to understand how wasteful the agricultural industry is and that their waste can be my gain, generally free for the asking. It has forever changed how I approach prepping and long-term storage gathering.

You are likely spot on regarding the festivals ... that and farm life tends to leave you seeing no other souls for long stretches ... esp in the days before the motor car. So, any excuse for a gathering is a good one, yes? ;-)

Ummm .... [scuffing a toe in the sand] I realize some folks get kind of a zen/oneness thang going on in the garden. I'm not there yet. For me, the therapy was much closer to anger management. Read about the laws our gubmint is breaking, go yank a bunch of weeds. Watch Obama bow to royalty (thereby ignoring the 'all men are created equal' stuff) go hoe up several new rows. (even if I didn't need them! If you can do it all in a peaceful, spiritual manner ... more power to you! (wish I could - maybe in 3 years or so, eh?)

Originally Posted by LaRemnant

Thank you SO MUCH for the wisdom you shared with us!!!

Goodness! You're very welcome but I wouldn't go so far as to call it wisdom. I look over the things mentioned on this thread and I see LOTS of rabbit trails to follow, investigate and absorb. I am still very much a newbie to gardening myself. It is nothing more than sharing information I've gleaned from others (and played with when possible) over the last year. Lessons are still fresh in my mind, which makes sharing a bit easier. Keep finding myself feeling like a hamster stuck in a wheel trying to move up the gardening learning curve. But I'm ahead of where I was last year and next year will dwarf this year ...

If your neighbor gardener is willing ... jump all over getting his input. There is SOOO much to learn ... and it is one of those things that is far easier to learn by doing than it is reading.

OH! Maybe approach your mom with the 'trying to stay away from high fructose corn syrup' approach to life, or pesticides etc. Since they're in almost everything, one would need to know how to put things by for themselves. It doesn't really matter why she thinks she's teaching you, only that she does. None of us stepped into the preparing mindset overnight. Try to offer her as much patience as possible. It's a HUGE step to go from the expectation/perception of an 'American Dream' to major deep doo-doo. Disillusionment is a dish that will be served more often as time goes by, I fear.

[ColcordMama]

For those of you who have gardens right now, here's a tip you might want to try this winter. You can actually grow veggies in the middle of winter using straw bales and old windows or shower doors. Just make a rectangle of straw bales around your plants and lay a big piece of glass over it. The bales insulate the plants and the glass allows the sun to shine in and keep the soil and plants inside warm, like a mini greenhouse. The only problem is this is pretty much only good for shorter plants, because you can't build the straw bale walls up too high or the plants will suffer from lack of sunlight as the sun progresses across the sky. I have seen this done but never was able to do it myself. This is effective even in several inches of snow. The neat part is, you can compost the straw next summer, then till the compost in to enrich the soil and use the old windows with fresh straw bales next winter.

[ColcordMama]

I agree with North Wet that it's difficult to pull perfectly good seedlings out of the ground for thinning. That's why seed tapes are so useful. The seeds are spaced exactly like they should be, and there are no extras to thin later because no plants are out of place.

[olebama]

Let me just mention a couple of things.

If you are going to grow in containers, you will need to keep them watered well. Here in Alabama, I tried to grow a tomato in a pot and by the time I got home at the end of the work day, it had wilted. I would water it and it would perk up, but never got much out of it.

Get your Mother down to show you how to can vegatables. If you have a video camera, video it! She won't always be around, unfortunately.

[cowgirlup]

Hey LaRem,

Do you have any fruit trees in your yard?
If not that would be a good thing to have since your in a good state for it.

[George]

Originally Posted by olebama

...

If you are going to grow in containers, you will need to keep them watered well. Here in Alabama, I tried to grow a tomato in a pot and by the time I got home at the end of the work day, it had wilted. I would water it and it would perk up, but never got much out of it.

...

I used to have same problem until I started to put up-side-down 1.25 litre PVC Coke bottles filled up with water. Necks submerged in dish under pot kept water in. As soon as tomato or cucumber used up water in a dish, water seal was broken and some water came out of the bottle.
I had dish not exactly level, so bottles would give out their water in turns.

Some pots had up to 4 bottles and the biggest problem was to fill them all up before I left home, quite a chore if you have several pots to prepare for hot day.

It was so successful, that I ended up with mosquitoes breeding in the dishes and even if I left dish dry overnight, somehow they survive.
Tried flyscreen pieces, but it didn’t work.
Tried to dry it out bit more and some plants were getting back to square one, wilted and not able to reach full potential even if saved.

I was just about to hook it up to tank connected to mains water with toilet flush valve, when somehow I drifted more toward plants in a garden.

But if somebody is pressed for space or just has the balcony, there are ways to keep water up to them while away.

[SwampRat1]

well friend, not to much i can add that has not been said. well, there are one or two things not mentioned. gardening does take a bit of patience and love. to some that may not may make sense, but mama and the others understand. raising a garden is alot like raising a child. you will have to do things you may not like, but in the end it will be worth it. or you can ignore it and let it run free and wild. and though it may still produce, it will not reach it's full potential.

good luck and happy gardening friend.