[Democracyman]

I was struggling with the problem of shelter at treeline in deep snow and I
took out some paper and started fooling around with numbers and shapes
of plastic.

Here is what I came up with. Buy a 10X10 foot section of plastic, I would
prefer the black on one side and white on the other side. You will need
some strength so I would guess at least 2mil plastic. Then cut it in two
diagonally. So you will have two pieces of plastic shaped like a triangle.

Then you tape it together to make a shape of a tepee. You will need to tape
the two sides together using duct tape. Once done you have a tepee shaped
plastic, about 7 foot tall and the bottom will be 9 foot in diameter. At the top
you make a small hole for the smoke to go out and you will need to make a way
to hang from a tree .

When in usage, just find a good tree to hang from and then gather up
boughs for bedding and a wood platform to build a fire on and fire wood.

Think this could work good, just have to test it out.

Thoughts?

Dan

[Baldninja]

I could be wrong, and the plastic being used would almost certainly play a role, but most plastic would likely melt from the radiating heat. Not to mention that when the adhesive on duct tape is heated, it isn't very effective. So at the very least, I'd think it would pull apart as the adhesive on the duct tape became heated. Worse case, the entire thing melts or even becomes set ablaze.

Generally speaking, when dealing with fire and/or heat, you want stone or metal materials to work with.

Possible fix: Keep your entire set up, but add a metal pipe, the kind they use in conjunction with wood burning stoves, and some sort of insulating coupling to fit around the pipe where it goes through the plastic. It seems like they use an insulating coupling of some sort when installing those units, but you'd have to check with a salesperson to see if it would insulate well enough to keep the piping from melting plastic.

Not sure how well that set up would work, though, without the actual wood burning stove to contain and focus the flow of heat....certainly worth "trying" though, as long as it's done safely.

[Unswydd]

This sounds good Demo. You will want to make a frame of course to wrap your plastic around.
Bald, I think the point of this is that Demo is a minimalist and carting around a metal pole would well, defeat the whole purpose.

[pocomoonskyeyes]

There are other lightweight materials out there that would be a better choice. I don't think the fire would be close enough to the material to be a problem, IF you constructed it along the same lines as the Plains Indians.

[Baldninja]

Well, he asked for "thoughts", that's what I gave him. I don't see how it could work unless he's using some really heavy duty and expensive plastic, in which case the adhesive would likely be what would instead fail on him. Unless he tries using my "possible fix", which what I was talking about is just light weight aluminum, so it's not like it would be all that heavy or encumbersome. 7 feet(much more than I think he'd need) of what I'm talking about probably would weigh in at under 3 pounds and could probably be used for some other purpose as well....like using it in conjunction with a piece of plastic for a rain catching system. Plastic catches the rain, drains through a hole into the piping and runs down that into whatever he may be using to hold the water.

Like I had initially said, though, plastic and fire/high heat levels don't generally mix all that well without something else being used to absorb the heat before it reaches the plastic. I'm just trying to save him the trouble of potentially catching himself on fire and/or suffering severe lung damage from inhaling the fumes from melted plastic, which can be fatal.

[Democracyman]

I have never done such a shelter before so I don't know, but I assumed that
the distance from the fire to the walls of the shelter to be great enough
so not to have melting problems.

I think the size of the fire is key. Small fire not a big one and be careful.

Of course the hole up top you have warm to hot smoke going out. But remember
real Tepees are made of wood that if bone dry will burn as well.

Just have to try out and actually see.

I am trying to keep my whole survival kit to around a pound if possible.

Thanks

Dan

[Democracyman]

IF you constructed it along the same lines as the Plains Indians.

Any information?

Dan

[pocomoonskyeyes]

Originally Posted by Baldninja

Well, he asked for "thoughts", that's what I gave him. I don't see how it could work unless he's using some really heavy duty and expensive plastic, in which case the adhesive would likely be what would instead fail on him. Unless he tries using my "possible fix", which what I was talking about is just light weight aluminum, so it's not like it would be all that heavy or encumbersome. 7 feet(much more than I think he'd need) of what I'm talking about probably would weigh in at under 3 pounds and could probably be used for some other purpose as well....like using it in conjunction with a piece of plastic for a rain catching system. Plastic catches the rain, drains through a hole into the piping and runs down that into whatever he may be using to hold the water.

Like I had initially said, though, plastic and fire/high heat levels don't generally mix all that well without something else being used to absorb the heat before it reaches the plastic. I'm just trying to save him the trouble of potentially catching himself on fire and/or suffering severe lung damage from inhaling the fumes from melted plastic, which can be fatal.

Oh I think you are right about plastic and heat.... If it is that close, that is. But look at the Plains Indians TeePee's. A good sized Painters drop cloth Could be made into a respectable teepee. They made it so that a circular curtain about 4' tall circled the inside from the ground up but not connecting to the sides. The shell didn't quite touch the ground this allowed for a Draft of cooler air to help the smoke draw out the opening above. this combined with a small fire would keep the inside warm, but not too hot. It may take a little experimentation, but it could be done... with care.

[Mook]

If you hang the peak from an overhanging anchor point and bury or otherwise secure the periphery, you wouldn't need a framework -- unless you anticipate heavy snowfall.

As long as the fire is small and preferably contained, say in a hobo stove, I wouldn't anticipate problems melting the plastic or tape. Eskimos will burn an oil lamp inside an igloo; while not raising the inside temp to sauna proportions, it raises the temp from well below freezing up to not-quite-melting, and the igloo stays intact without melting.

I think this plastic tepee idea is genius. Cheap, light, and probably very effective. If there are no overhanging branches, you could even make a tripod from three long branches to make a suspension point. I'll have to give it a try.

[Baldninja]

Originally Posted by pocomoonskyeyes

Oh I think you are right about plastic and heat.... If it is that close, that is. But look at the Plains Indians TeePee's. A good sized Painters drop cloth Could be made into a respectable teepee. They made it so that a circular curtain about 4' tall circled the inside from the ground up but not connecting to the sides. The shell didn't quite touch the ground this allowed for a Draft of cooler air to help the smoke draw out the opening above. this combined with a small fire would keep the inside warm, but not too hot. It may take a little experimentation, but it could be done... with care.

Ok, the ventilation at the bottom would probably reduce the chances of melting the plastic dramatically, I hadn't thought of that, since he was talking about doing this in the snow. The only problem there would be that he may need to occasionally remove any snow from that bottom area that may blow up and otherwise close that ventilation off.

EDIT: A hoola hoop may serve your purposes as a frame, by attaching the bottom of the plastic to it. It may be too small, though. Mabye you could use that as a template to make something similar, but more to your suiting, as far as size and weight.