[Aussie_Tim]

Hey Guys

Im new to the forum and I couldn't find a discussion about this while I was looking (If there is one and I've overlooked it please tell me and delete this post) and I wanted to know what you would do if things got ugly real quick and what a fairly inexperienced person like me could do to increase my chances of getting through it.

While I appreciate all advice, there are few things that make my position different from many of the people here (most seem to be from US), namely Australia's very strict laws in regards to weapons in particular firearms, batons (especially extendable or flick out batons) flick knives, sling shots etc. IT IS ILLEGAL TO CARRY WEAPONS OF ANY KIND IN ANY STATE IN AUSTRALIA. Weapons cannot be bought for personal protection without licensing ie. security guards and having a number of weapons on your property may be considered an arsenal if ever brought to the attention of the police.

While I have knives (and considering a machete) and have gone hunting feral pigs once with people who do have the licenses to do keep firearms, I cannot legally acquire means to defend myself or hunt for food (except for my stash of knives that I'm forbidden to carry unless hunting or fishing) if I decide to go bush. even if I acquire a gun license (which I am trying to) I cant keep guns in my residence due to the storage requirements (safes must be bolted to the floor or walls) and since my parents own this house and are very much against keeping guns in the house i cant do it. Even using a rented gun safe, if SHTF the government will probably make places that do rent out gun storage make them inaccessible to prevent rioting, looting etc.

So if the SHTF what do I do?

If I stick to my residence (I live on my own however my family mum, dad and 4 siblings live about 15 minutes away) I can put aside large amounts of long lasting food, potable water in storage containers, hygienic supplies, my "small collection" of knives and clothing. Because chances are, my family wont have supplies to stay self sufficient for long and as far as Im concerned my younger siblings eat before I do in that sort of situation.

However, I gotta sleep sometime. I live near a rough area and people would have no problem with breaking in to steal anything and everything that can feed or defend themselves or their families. I train in Kyokushin Karate and done several courses in military CQB but that probably wont be enough, especially if im dealing with numbers of people.

Do I go bush?

I live near the blue mountains national park. Sleeping in a hammock with a mosquito net, a tent or in a foxhole with only BOB full of supplies can only keep me alive for so long if I cant hunt effectively. Ive never had to set up traps for small animals or kangaroos (which taste great by the way, try it sometime) there are a few rivers and creeks running through it that I can get water from, but there isn't much in the way of fishing there. I may invest in slightly illegal tools for hunting ie hunting slingshot if my shooters license doesn't go through.

Ive tried finding survival skills courses near here, but they're all about canoing and abseiling, not bush craft of survival skills. So I can only read information from books and the internet as opposed to hand on experience with an instructor.But lets say I did and I go bush, I leave my family behind. How can I do that if they are not safe?

I'm in a bit of bad situation in terms of personal choices if things go bad down here. What do you, the experienced survivors think I should do and what would you do in my situation? Any and all advice is appreciated and I would much rather have it and not need it, as opposed to need it and not have it.

Thanks for helping the newbie.



Cheers!

[hunter480]

Wow Tim, your situation should make all of us here in the States feel extremely fortunate to have the Second Amendment rights we have. You`re way behind the 8-ball there.

In regards to the situation with your family, I suppose it goes without saying, you can`t leave them behind, so then it becomes a case of your supplying them with your stuff, and doing the very best you can as far as fighting the intruders.

The good news is, you are not at that point yet, so you still have the chance to plan for, and stockpile for that event, IF it occurs.

I applaud you for your obvious devotion to your family, because it isn`t as certain a thing as you may think for everyone. Also, do plan for every circumstance, by saying I mean, plan legally as well as otherwise. Do your best to stay within the laws of your area, but don`t let those laws restrict you to the point of being a martyer. Do what you need to do to protect yourself and your family.

Welcome here, and know we`ll help you however possible.

[Celticwarrior]

Yeah, Hunter is right, the no-gun situation there is what we have often feared happening here. However, if I were you I would look at some of the aboriginal weaponry that is used there. Boomerangs aside (never could get those to work myself), the native folk used a variety of hunting and warfare weapons that can be used on various animals like 'roos. As "collectors items" or "native art" they may get you a plausible cover to have them in your house without causing too many problems with neighbors or the law.

Also, I believe that with rabbits being such a problem there, you may be able to get a license to kill those without too many problems, either with snares or traps, maybe with firearms or bows. They are an invasive animal and have been targeted for extermination by the Australian government for a long time. Don't know if you are on the right side (or wrong side, depending on how you look at it) of the Fence, but wherever there are rabbits, there should be people to get rid of them.

Speaking of Bows, are you able to get one? I know that the government is really weird about weapons of any sort there, but a take-down long or recurve bow and some "practice" arrows might go under the radar.

As for staying or going, holing up in place, where you have supplies, friends and relatives for support, and access to goods and services is probably the best idea for anyone. Unless there is a GOOD reason to Bug Out, I would look at fortifying my position however I could, and stock a decent amount of goods to see you through, like bottled water and canned foods. I would make a point of telling no one about this, since you don't want them knocking on your door.

Slings of both type (pouch and catapult) are easy to home-make, and if you go out to the wilderness, easy to practice with. I would say taking the raw materials with you and creating the catapult from those and a stick you get from the woods would be the ticket. That way, you can get rid of the offending "weapon" by disassembly and breaking or burning the stick portion.

Learning to make improvised weapons from common items, a few tools and some know-how is an art and a science, but you may want to brush up on that info from the internet (since books like the Poor Man's James Bond and the Anarchist's Cookbook are likely not available there). If the SHTF, I would rather know some way to make a weapon that be completely helpless thanks to the wonderful judgement of my government.

Hope this helps.

[SwampRat1]

Aussie, I had heard that weapons laws were tight in your area, but man i didn't realize it was that bad. CelticWarrior mentioned some really good ideas. What about even trying to speak with some of the aborigines? Maybe if you can get some of the elders to teach you their ways of living in the bush. And also teaching you primitive weapons. A walking stick for example can make an excellent club, for self defense and as a rabbit stick. But depending on how bad things get, a gun license may be the least of your worries.

Welcome to the forum by the way, look forward to sharing ideas with you

[stairman]

Wow,thats tough.I guess if bows arent allowed then blackpowder weapons arent either.Traps and snares for meat would be your main tool.God Bless America.

[C#orBflat]

Aussie,

With weapons outlawed there, is the crime rate pretty low in the cities?



- And welcome to the forums!

.

[Aussie_Tim]

Originally Posted by C#orBflat

Aussie,

With weapons outlawed there, is the crime rate pretty low in the cities?



- And welcome to the forums!

.

Firearms related crime is far lower per capita than to the US. Knives are cracked down on really hard now. The poor mans alternative (and often the 15 year old wannabe thugs who cant buy knives because they are not 18 yet) is a screwdriver. However drugs, assault and car theft are commonplace in most cities. Unfortunately, due to our culture that involves a lot of drinking, glassings are on the rise in pubs clubs and bars. So much so now that the government want to bring in laws to stop alcohol being served in their bottles or even glasses after certain times. Thats how strict the weapons laws are, we cant even knife someone at the pub without using an improvised weapon :p. On a more serious note, when I used to work nights as a doorman I had a provisional security license and I was told without a full license and a secondary license (involving being armed and assisting with armored cars) I couldn't even own a bullet or knife proof vest. Thats how strict our laws are.
The reason behind this is that a lot of irresponsible people will acquire and collect weapons or body armour for "protection" and use them in robberies, assault theft etc. Also makes the job far easier for police if they are more heavily armed and armoured than the perpetrator's.

And as far as asking the aborigines for help, there is a lot of tension between white Australians and Natives. Many do not embrace the outdoor expertise we see on TV, and the ones that do prefer to keep that knowledge to themselves. Again, back to weapons, even traditional clubs and spears are illegal unless your part of a "cultural" group.
One idea I will borrow was from when I was working security. A fellow guard showed me his 5D Maglite one night (or rather early morning) after our shift. The cute thing was he had put a foregrip from a portable drill on it to make it a sort of side baton. Blind them then beat them. I know you can buy the proper grips for them somewhere but they're illegal here. He improvised well.

Celtic, your on the money with the rabbit problem. Fact is Roos are not far behind in several areas, they breed like crazy and cause a lot of problems for farmers in Queensland and some parts of New South Wales. However with rabbits they must be killed "humanely". If in a rural area you can shoot them, you can set dogs on em, pour petrol down the hole followed by a match, sets traps poisons almost anything except for dynamite. (not kidding, two coal miners went to jail for it a few years ago). National parks on the other hand, you need a permit for just about anything. Not that they could see you with a bow (or rather see me with a bow) however if caught - look out. Remember carrying weapons without a permit on Federal property is prohibited. Even lighting a fire is prohibited at certain times of the year, but thats because this is a very dry continent and bushfires can cause major problems and heavy penalties apply in this county for arson.

Thanks to everyone who has put forward ideas. Very much appreciated


Cheers!

[Celticwarrior]

Tim, yeah I understand the Abo youth are a real nightmare. Rowdy even by Aussie standards, but protected by the elders and a government afraid of ruffling feathers by doing a lot of prosecuting, lest people call them racists or denounce them for coming down hard on the aboriginal people. You are right that for the most part they are uninterested in helping whites to "learn their culture" or spend time with them learning traditional crafts and skills. I would imagine that you are going to have to figure out a plan that includes you and your family getting together at one of your homes, and making your stand there, unfortunately. The other problem that I see for going "native" down there and heading into the wild is that your continent is CRAWLING with things that can KILL YOU. I have been all over the world, and been in some godforsaken places with nasty biting, flying, crawling, and venomous critters, but Australia and Tasmania are just the worst! Monitor lizards, snakes, spiders (those damn nasty little red buggers that are as poisonous as a Black Widow up here, but swarm in little clusters on webs that hang in any dark doorway or cave entrance!), not to mention the packs of dingos and the salties (crocs are nastier than the alligators we have up here by a LONG shot!). Your beaches have those nasty, nigh-invisible box jellyfish that can kill a man with a nearly imperceptable sting, and lets not forget Great White Sharks. It is a survivalists' nightmare! I don't know where to even start preparing for all of that, since the worst thing I have in my neck of the woods (literally) is a not-very venomous type of rattlesnake (Missauga or Michigan Rattler), a rare spider (brown recluse), and some wolves and bears that are more scared of us than we are of them. For my money, I would stay near civilization down there, where there is water to drink, food you can grow, and less likelihood of running into something that can kill you in your sleep (other than people, of course.)

I love the scenary down there, and for excursions into certain areas, I am sure it is breathtaking and amazingly beautiful, but wow, there are just SO many hazards that I would be constantly paranoid about running afoul of one of them. It would drive me crazy.

[Ron Fontaine]

When a man loses his God given right to protect himself and his family to the whims of a government, it is time for revolution.

Be that as it may, you have to deal with your situation as it is now. First of all, the best defense you have is mutual protection - form a network of like minded friends and relatives that will pull together should the SHTF. There is safety in numbers and there is bounty in the wide variety of skills and resources a large group of people can provide.

Put in place your preps such as food, water, clothing, etc.

Weaponry can be improvised in many ways. For example, a ball peen hammer. Now there is an excellent self defense tool that is similar to a weapon used against armored knights hundreds of years ago. Yet, it is likely having ball peen hammers in your tool box is perfectly legal.

Can you legally own a hatchet or axe for camping? I swung an axe several hours a day, five days a week for years as a land surveyor to cut lines of sight through our thick forests. An amazing tool that becomes a part of your body over time. And an excellent weapon that can strike fear into your opponents. It is not just the blade that is potent. Jab the 2-pound hard metal end into someones face and see how they like it.

Bugging out into the wilderness may not be the way to go. You could loose your network of friends and family, and be exposed to those who already live in the area or move there with the intentions as you. Turf wars could develop that you are not prepared for.

In addition, it can be difficult to live off the land especially when you have a family to support. When times are tough everybody else will have the same idea. Within several months there may be hardly a rabbit, rat, or deer (fill in the names of animals that live in your area here) left.

Staying in your familiar area may very well be the best option.

Cultivate your locals. For example, rather than purchase your food from the cheapest local outlets, go to a nearby farmer and buy your food directly from him. Over time you will develop a relationship with the actual food producers.

In my case, rather than buy cheap honey from a box store, every year I purchase several gallons of maple syrup (I live in maple syrup country) from a local who makes it in the spring. We use this maple syrup as our main sweetener precisely because it is locally made.

When TSHTF, if the box stores even exist at all it may be very difficult to find sugars, etc. People will turn to local products such as maple syrup - and who will the maple sugar producer sell too? Will he sell or trade his limited stock to newcomers or will he sell it to me, his favorite customer over the years?

Do this with eggs, milk, meat, vegetables, etc etc. Buy locally and develop relationships with the producers, NOT the big box stores. Be a supporter of those in your local community now, and they will be a supporter you in time of need.

[tjwilhelm]

Excellent thoughts and comments Ron.

In our village, we have a few similar group efforts going. One is a chicken co-op (as opposed to a chicken coop). Several households raise chickens together, so everyone only has to do chores one day per week. Yet, there are plenty of eggs for all of them.

We also have an informal program called SNAP (sensible neighbors actively prepare). Whenever anyone around here might be feeling a little charitable, and also has the wherewithall to be so, they can make a donation to the SNAP fund. SNAP funds are used to buy blankets, bottled water, storage foods, etc. -- kind of like a community-level 72-hour survival kit. Part of the thinking behind this was that the best way to protect yourself from unprepared neighbors was to set aside something for those who might get caught unaware or unprepared -- kind of like tossing a piece of meat to the angry doberman. Also, it answers the question, "What if you're the only person in town who actively prepared, on a personal level; and, then, after the SHTF, your house and all it's stockpiled contents is the only house that burns to the ground?"

Ron's advice about group-efforts among like minded freinds and allies is something worth serious consideration...IMHO...