[TaintRight]

Seriously. Unless you are out to the west somewhere when the SHTF, do any of you think you will be able to escape the urban masses by running "into the hills" or "into the country"?

I can envision escaping to my chosen spot (ten miles from nowhere) and finding 1,000 hungry, ill-prepared people already camped there. The Appalachian Mountains will probably resemble the Sears parking lot during the after Thanksgiving sale.

One of the most deserted places on the planet a month or so after the SHTF may well be the eastern suburbs

[Celticwarrior]

I think you are overestimating the resourcefulness of the average sheeple. Honestly. Katrina showed us that people will stupidly stay in their neighborhoods while all hell is breaking loose and the place is collapsing around their ears if they can. They will huddle in a hot, steamy cesspool of death and disease like the Superdome rather than try to walk out of there to somewhere else, because it's someone ELSE's job to come save them. You MIGHT get people driving out of Atlanta toward the northern hills, but I sincerely doubt that they will go much beyond huddling together at rest stops and organized campgrounds if they do. They certainly won't be deep into the woods. There are scary things there, and these people are ill-equipped to even do simple car camping, much less a Les Stroud type of survival hike. How many of the people on your block own a hunting weapon? (not gangbangers with AKs or 9mm, but actual scoped hunting rifles?) I would guess the number is closer to "none" than "a lot". How many do you figure have ever had to home can anything for their pantry? Or have learned how to make a proper fire in the middle of a winter storm or a nasty rain? How many do you figure even have enough decently warm and dry clothes in their wardrobes to survive a winter outdoors? My guess is that the majority will be staying put in the city, waiting for Uncle Sucker to help them out. The rest who hit the road won't get far, and will succumb to a variety of horrible deaths before too long because they lack the skill and training to do much better. I would think if you have a decent plan, have an escape route that isn't one of the main interstates, and your Bugout Location isn't the local KOA or Holiday Inn, you will be just fine.

[TaintRight]

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you today. In fact I hope you are right on this issue. But I remind you that only a tiny tiny fraction of the citizens of New Orleans remained behind prior to 9/11. The vast majority streamed out of town when the evacuation order came down. I've seen the same phenom in Savannah during hurricanes. Few hung around.

But that really isn't the issue. In a scenario where urban riots are swirling and flashing over into the suburbs, hungry suburbanites with nothing to eat will "escape" as far as the gas in the wife's minivan will carry them. Most will "head for the hills" despite the fact there is nothing much to eat "in the hills" or even "in the countryside". These places seem like the place to go. "Heading to the hills" is romantic. But they are going to be deathtraps for the unprepared.

I do agree few around here can make a fire. My neighbor can't do it with a plumbers torch and a can of charcoal lighter. Hell, she thinks cooking outside means making "Smores". As long as somebody else manages to build the camp fire.

As far as guns with scopes go, how long you reckon it'll be before all the deer are gone? A few weeks maybe? Moving about the woods after the SHTF will be dangerous.

[cowgirlup]

We've already escaped the suburbs and now live outside of a small town.
The population hovers around 4000 but it's pretty spread out. We're not isolated or remote but I don't think that many people will head this direction.
Maybe some but not a mob.

[TaintRight]

Immigrants from the city are not a problem as long as there is space for them and they know how to function. My fear is there will not be enough space and most will sit there waiting on FEMA. And if FEMA doesn't come promptly, they'll be at your door.

[Ron Fontaine]

Don't forget the locals in rural areas. Many of them are going to be hungry and desperate too - quite a number of people are living hand to mouth as it is.

People in rural areas have a hunting tradition, are familiar with the local terrain, are well armed and experienced, have a network of friends and family, and quickly recognize outsiders as being outsiders.

Larger game such as moose, deer, bear and even rabbits will be quickly thinned out. Much of the meat will be wasted. So don't count on wildlife for food unless you are quite far from "civilization". In a short time the major source of wild meat will be squirrels, other rodents and insects.

I feel that stocking up, staying put, and developing real ties to your local community -wherever you may be - is your best bet at survival. Remember to buy locally as much as possible (Walmart ain't gonna be there for you!) and create ties to your community as this will pay great dividends should the SHTF.

[snowshoe67]

I 'am up here in Maine! Very Isolated 25 miles up From Me.Not many will Head That way. You can get lost in Some area's of Maine. I know some very nice places. It's has Food,Shelter,water and Ive got a B.O.B storge there. Many Survival needs.

[Ron Fontaine]

Even in many "rural" areas, the human population greatly exceeds the carrying capacity of the land. That is, if everyone in the area attempts to live off the land there will be great starvation within a year or two as everything edible is consumed.

[crazydave]

you only have to look at the density of mountain men and the areas they needed to survive, even then they had to ship stores in and trade with the injuns for jerky and berry cakes.

if everyone runs away then you have a greater chance of improvising your way through and finding stashed food or even a rat diet as they will thrive on what you consider inedible.

there's a myth about settlers that they found what they needed as they travelled, without established agriculture you will struggle so if you do have a location planned out then its best to seed it with suitable hardy vegetables and plants which can self seed to expand. when not harvested they will provide for the animal population and improve that source of meat.

if you study the polish and other partisan groups of ww2 then the animals soon disappear into their own hidden kingdoms leaving the groups in a constant state of near starvation unless they could raid a farm or supply convoy. try making acorn biscuits or processing beech cast and you realise how much a struggle it can be.

years ago I worked with a proper 'bunker builder' and was amazed at the amount of stuff he had stored away for any eventuality. not sure how much had been aquired from his unit though.

untill we ruined the seas you could have said that fuel and fish hooks would get you through.

[Unswydd]

Good Thread!
I belong to the local 912 group and we've been having seperate meetings about prepardness. I'm really glad they've decided to do this as most of them haven't got a clue.
This is giving me a chance to shine here. I am able to relay some of the knowledge I have garnered from here and hope to steer some of these folks to this site. I purchased some ranger firesteels to hand out tomorrow night and am anxious to see the reaction. I hope these people are ready to "get it" cuz they're gonna be stuck with their petitions if they don't.