[Punisher]

Well since I always have my trusty .45 ACP with me 99% of the time if a SHTF happened I would most likely depend on my .45 until I can get home.

[cwi555]

If you pump 11 rounds of anything into anyone in self defense home invasion, be prepared to go to jail. You will find yourself trying to explain why you felt it necessary to pump 11 rounds into someone to stop the threat.

Originally Posted by p moore

I am so glad I live where I do. If you are in the big city, when the stuff hits, GET OUT!!
As far as gun of choice. I am like a small minority here. I have a Tauras 9mm, S&W .38 Rev, .308 rev, a Ruger 10/22 and a S&W 422. If I must leave, I am taking the .22's. If someone breaks in, I would most likely grab the 422. 11 rounds very quickly will end it. $.02

Paul

[heysmithy]

Originally Posted by Brother Karamazov

I had basically the same question as the intial post in this thread.

I don't have the experience or training most of you guys have and I'm on a very limited budget.

I've decided to purchase a 12 gauge shotgun as my first firearm.

I'm leaning towards a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 "something".
But I need help with the details.

Should I get it chambered for 3" or 2 3/4" shells?
What barrel length should I get?

Any other details I should be aware of?

There is plenty of advice from people more knowledgeable than myself about what specific model of shotgun to get. My personal opinion is that it doesn't really matter a whole lot. Shotguns are not like rifles. Most shotguns of the same caliber have almost the exact same capabilities.

The only thing I'd like to point out is that shotguns are chambered "up to" a certain length shells. If you get one chambered for 3", it can also take 2 3/4" shells. If you get one chambered for 3 1/2" shells, it can take pretty much anything. So in my opinion it's best to just get the longest chamber.

[Bladed]

Personally I would go with the saiga 12, 12 ga. It is an AK-47 based semiauto matic. Very easy to use and very reliabele. Although a bit more expensive than a pump it is more versatile due to the fact it uses box magazines in stead of a fixed tube mag. The available mags come in 2, 5, 8, 10, 12 round capacities or you can get a 20 round drum.
Mine ran $650 and came with one 5 round mag. They are chambered for 2 3/4 and 3 inch magnum shells.

[Chadb]

The 12 gauge has its advantages, but also has it's disadvantages. No removable magazine (for hunting not an issue, but if it's protection against lots of people it become an issue) and short range.

The 10/22 is also a great choice because of the cheap ammo, longer range. Also one could easily carry 2 or 3 THOUSAND rounds of 22, where as with a 12 gauge, that's near impossible.

But my choice is an AR-15 in 223 (with a silencer) It's got great range, has a removable magazine, doesn't take much to keep it working, and with a 223 you can fire 5.56 which is the standard military round, so it will almost always be manufactured. It's better for personal protection than the 10/22 because the 22 really lacks any real penetration. But in all honesty shooting someone with a 22, even if it doesn't kill them, will stop, or at least really slow them down.

When the SHTF I'll have my AR-15, my Glock, and my 10/22... BRING IT ON

[hunter480]

Originally Posted by Chadb

But my choice is an AR-15 in 223 (with a silencer) It's got great range, has a removable magazine, doesn't take much to keep it working, and with a 223 you can fire 5.56 which is the standard military round, so it will almost always be manufactured. It's better for personal protection than the 10/22 because the 22 really lacks any real penetration. But in all honesty shooting someone with a 22, even if it doesn't kill them, will stop, or at least really slow them down.

You can only shoot the 5.56 mm in your AR if it`s stamped on the barrel. The .223 and 5.56 mm are very similar, but are not the same round. The 5.56 mm has much higher pressures, and you`re at risk if you shoot that round thru a weapon only rated for the .223.

[Bladed]

Originally Posted by Chadb

The 12 gauge has its advantages, but also has it's disadvantages. No removable magazine (for hunting not an issue, but if it's protection against lots of people it become an issue) and short range.

The 10/22 is also a great choice because of the cheap ammo, longer range. Also one could easily carry 2 or 3 THOUSAND rounds of 22, where as with a 12 gauge, that's near impossible.

But my choice is an AR-15 in 223 (with a silencer) It's got great range, has a removable magazine, doesn't take much to keep it working, and with a 223 you can fire 5.56 which is the standard military round, so it will almost always be manufactured. It's better for personal protection than the 10/22 because the 22 really lacks any real penetration. But in all honesty shooting someone with a 22, even if it doesn't kill them, will stop, or at least really slow them down.

When the SHTF I'll have my AR-15, my Glock, and my 10/22... BRING IT ON

Here you are WRONG!ReRead my post above the Saiga 12 does in fact use a removable box mags!

[MichaelD]

Not to sound like a broken record, but the 12g pump slug and buckshot, and a 22 LF, 40gr, hollow point. Perhaps a bow and arrow for those quite kills.

[cwi555]

Originally Posted by Chadb

The 12 gauge has its advantages, but also has it's disadvantages. No removable magazine (for hunting not an issue, but if it's protection against lots of people it become an issue) and short range.

The 10/22 is also a great choice because of the cheap ammo, longer range. Also one could easily carry 2 or 3 THOUSAND rounds of 22, where as with a 12 gauge, that's near impossible.

But my choice is an AR-15 in 223 (with a silencer) It's got great range, has a removable magazine, doesn't take much to keep it working, and with a 223 you can fire 5.56 which is the standard military round, so it will almost always be manufactured. It's better for personal protection than the 10/22 because the 22 really lacks any real penetration. But in all honesty shooting someone with a 22, even if it doesn't kill them, will stop, or at least really slow them down.

When the SHTF I'll have my AR-15, my Glock, and my 10/22... BRING IT ON

For a silenced weapon, you sure picked an odd one. That silencer is not going to do any good when the bullet hits the air coming out of the muzzle.
You are still going to get a sonic crack, so putting a silencer on a .223 or 5.56 for standard rounds is pointless. I have to throw the flag on that one.


As for the .223 vs 5.56



Take special note of the shoulder dimensions.
There is a radius on the .223 but not on the 5.56. This is why you can shoot a .223 in a 5.56 safely, but not the otherway around. The .223 in the 5.56 will simply flatten out to the dimensions of the chamber, however; if you shoot a 5.56 in a .223 chamber, the lack of a radius on the 5.56 round can cause it to stand off at the shoulder if the round doesn't seat just right.
That lack of proper seating can translate to firing out of headspace, and "KABOOM".
Refer to the flag.

Then the idea that a 22 cannot penetrate..hmmm Better tell that to the Navy seals and their silenced Ruger Mark II's, as well as the IDF, and multiple other special forces around the world. The 22 can in fact penetrate a person skull and into the brain, much less other vital organ areas.
Refer to the flag.

[Bladed]

Ya, firing a 5.56 in a .223 is a good way to to take yourself out when the barrel explodes in your face.